並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/2022-08-05-%E8%B6%85%E7%B4%9A%E7%BE%8E%E9%A3%9F%E5%AE%B6-%E7%8E%8B%E7%91%9E%E7%91%A4/id1642839567?i=1000577980001