並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-055-%E7%9C%9F%E7%9A%84%E5%97%8E-%E4%B8%80%E5%88%87%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E6%9C%80%E5%A5%BD%E7%9A%84%E5%AE%89%E6%8E%92/id1502072591?i=1000556511565