並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%BD%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%8B%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%8B%E9%9B%9C%E8%AA%8Cpodcast/%E7%B6%93%E6%BF%9F%E5%AD%B8%E4%BA%BA%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%8Bep29-exl9UkwnbqL/